What is it like inside your house right now during these times of change? Have there been blowups over dirty clothes left on the bathroom floor? Absolute panic and outrage when a dirty spoon is left in the sink instead of in the dishwasher? Or maybe tears shed understanding how Chicken Little felt claiming the “sky is falling”?
Logic and emotion go hand in hand. At times, when our emotion is elevated, it’s like being on the teeter-totter with an older, bigger sibling who just sits on the ground, making you panic that you’ll fall off and break an arm. Eventually, that sibling – with some threats from your parents, most likely – lets you back down, and you start to feel safe again. There is now an equal balance between your logic and emotion.
Join this conversation between Adam J. Salgat, Sarah Weisbarth, and Mike Desparrois as they share stories of logic and emotional struggles and successes inside their home. They also talk about self-awareness techniques to work through states of heightened emotions.
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Adam:
Hey listener, we would love it. If you could take a quick moment to give our podcast a review on iTunes, Spotify, or leave us a message on our Facebook or LinkedIn pages.
Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens podcast. My name is Adam Salgat, and today is May 12th, 2020. With me today is leader of curriculum improvement and development for Our Community listens, Sarah Weisbarth and Mike Desparrois, leader of education initiatives. Sarah and Mike, thank you both for joining the podcast. How are you doing today?
Sarah:
Doing great, Adam, always happy to be here and really excited to have Mike joining us today.
Mike:
I am excited to be here as well, Adam, and be invited onto the podcast to have a great conversation.
Adam:
We going to talk a little bit today and we’ve been doing so with each other, as we’ve been getting to know, what’s going on in everybody’s life. But we want to continue to talk about logic and emotion. We want to focus that conversation today around the home and why it’s important when we’re parenting our youth and the relationships that we have with our spouse or loved ones and how exactly logic and emotion comes into play with these relationships. Sarah, I know that you have a few stories that you want to share about this topic, but I’ll let you just kind of get it started and go from there.
Sarah:
All right. Thank you, Adam. Thank you for really just teeing us up and giving us some context. I know in our previous podcast, we talked about change and what’s happening with change and how we’re handling that and how our logic and emotion can start to be out of balance. And we’ve talked about the understanding of the logic and emotion bubbles in previous podcasts. This is really now this opportunity to have a conversation around, so now what does that really mean for me? How do I apply that to what’s happening maybe for me, but especially in our home environments with youth and with our committed relationships, those people that are really the closest to us. And Mike actually said something about that in our pre-conversation about whether we like it or not, the people we’re at home with, or the people we’re technically closest to right now.
And especially when there’s high stress or lots of change that can be difficult to manage as that emotion bubble starts to inflate.
Mike:
I think that’s really a great way to kind of jump off into what we’re going to talk about today, Sarah with logic and emotion. Because if you think about it, wouldn’t the world be so much easier if we were all at the same logic level and emotion levels at the same time, not really how things work. And I know when I’m at home with my two teenage girls and my wife, sometimes my emotions high, sometimes their emotions high. Sometimes my logic is right on track and sometimes their is not, and we have to try to figure out ways where we work with each other and support each other.
Sarah:
I think the funniest moments I have are when my logic is on fire. I have so much logic. I have logic for everyone in the house and everyone else is on the high emotion. And so no amount of my logic is being helpful right now. And I’m actually contributing to the problem of the high emotion in those moments.
Mike:
So you’re trying to over logic people and not… I’ve been there many times.
Sarah:
The flip side is I actually just listened to a podcast recently around emotional reactivity and I’m recognizing that I can be emotionally reactive to things. And I reached out to some friends of mine and asked for accountability around it. Because we know that when emotion is high, venting is helpful, except I’m finding myself really just relying on that high emotion and letting that vent almost fuel more emotion. And that’s not feeling really good to me. And so I asked for some accountability when I reach out to friends and say, I need to vent that it’s a healthy vent and not just kind of adding to all of that emotional reactivity.
Mike:
So what you’re saying is sometimes when you vent, you can make your emotion even higher or more negative in a way, rather than it being a productive come down. Been guilty of that many times myself. And it’s I’m almost trying to give myself logic to my emotion and you really can’t until you kind of allow yourself that space and even the grace to just be yourself. That’s a good point. I love how you have an accountability buddy too, say, Hey.
Sarah:
Well, we teach that venting is important and that’s helpful. And so I feel the people around me are trying to serve me, but I’m recognizing that, like you said, I’m almost justifying my own reaction. And so I’m trying to figure out some other ways to help me manage that emotion. Because again, I see what it’s doing to me, but then I’ve also seen how when my emotion is really high and I’m not being, I want to say responsible about it, how it’s impacting then my household, when I walk out of this office and I’m losing my mind, that’s not healthy either.
Mike:
I agree with that. There’s been some different techniques that I’ve learned over time. And it’s really interesting because when you learn different techniques of how you support someone when they’re very emotional. I think about the kids that I used to work with as a teacher. One of the things that’s real important to understand is it works really well for you as a human too, regardless of your age. It’s not a kid thing. So I just know the power of just breathing is a huge thing. And if I can remember to just take some really good breaths and just… Sometimes that’s something that helps my brain kind of re-trigger and bring some emotion down as well too. But it also allows me to have that respectful or productive vent you were talking about. But sometimes when you’re high emotion, you’re so tensed up and your face is probably bright red, and you’ve got veins popping out, and you’re not really doing that physical response that we just [inaudible 00:06:39] just breathe. And you think about them, kids at Walmart when they just want that life and everyone is, Oh man, I’m glad that’s not my kid. In reality, we’re thinking, I’m glad it’s not my kid who’s acting that way right now because [crosstalk 00:06:55]
Sarah:
It’s so interesting that you tie it back to the behavior. And I actually think about the breathing is a behavior. And so that mindfulness of, okay, if I’m feeling this way now maybe the behavior I need to have is to actually physically take a breath. I think about when my son was young, I mean maybe four or five years old, his dad and I, we would watch his emotion bubbles start to expand. And we called it verging is actually the term we used, he’s on the verge of God knows with what. And we would sit there and strategize, do we think we need to kind of pop his bubble, kind of push him over the edge of his ability to contain his emotion right now. Or are there tools that we can use to maybe help him settle down before he would pop his bubble?
And I think about, you’re going to be able to help me understand this better because I’m thinking about the child’s mind. I can’t imagine that as a four or five-year-old I could have said to my son, we see you are really increasing in your emotion right now. Could we take a moment? I don’t think that would have been effective. We typically send him over the edge and then let him express his emotion. Maybe in a physical nature, we actually encouraged him to yell and then yell be the feelings he was having. So that then that bubble could decompress and then we could talk about what led to those feelings. Help me, tell me I was a good parent and help me understand how that all looks.
Mike:
Well, based on Facebook, I would say you’re good parents. [crosstalk 00:08:38] And the stories that you tell. So it’s funny because we always… We’re probably our biggest critics to ourselves when it comes to parents. Because we’re very good. David Vandemore likes to say, if you are chronically human, we make mistakes. And when we make mistakes and we hurt those people, that’s hard. And so you want to make sure you’re doing the right thing. The key to what you did was you allowed to him the time to come down. And however he did that, that was appropriate is fine. So, maybe yelling and screaming in school wouldn’t be appropriate, but if he’s at home and it’s a way of him to release, it’s a very appropriate thing. The key is, is when he comes back to logic is what you just said. You talked about the situation because at that point in time, that’s when learning can take place. If you think about our onion slide, we’re trying to build that choice to be even bigger. And we want that layer of the onion to be super big. So the next time he started to feel emotional. He has more choice to take those feelings, whether they’re a positive or negative feeling and have a productive outcome versus a non productive outcomes. So, I think that’s great what you did. I like the term verging. He’s on the verge, what do we do?
Sarah:
It was our code word. It was literally a code word. Oh, here we are.
Mike:
And it always happens at moments when you’re not prepared. In your mind, you’re trying to think, what trigger set off this behavior? What was the function? And all of these things are kind of going through your mind while you’re also trying to think about the other person. And if you think about it, all you and his dad did was just listen and let him have his moment. And everyone needs to have that. So the venting part is important. What we want to have is a productive venting rather than a non-productive venting. If he wasn’t done came in screaming and yelling and calling you names, that’s one thing. It was just a way to bring himself back the better way. It reminds me of a story of when I was a kid. So I was the youngest of four and so I’m the little one and Christmas time.
So Christmas time was so exciting around my house. And we were the family that we would open up presents on Christmas Eve from family members. And then the big Santa Claus present was Christmas morning. And so we got the practical presents on Christmas Eve. You’d get a new turtle knack or maybe some boots, maybe if you’re lucky, a matchbox car or something along those lines. So it’s kind of, this is cool, I think I was an eight year old boy. But the next day you knew you were going to get, or you were hoping you were going to get what you’ve been asking for, the new RC racetrack or the new Atari game, or I’m dating myself now, Adam. So bear with me.
Adam:
I can tell.
Mike:
And so you have all that emotion building up and remember what Christmas Eve night was like, you didn’t sleep at all. And then all of a sudden your mom’s waking you up or something wakes you up and you’re running downstairs and you run to where the Christmas tree is because you really want to see what it is that you got. And that bubble, it’s verging Sarah, it’s getting bigger and bigger and you’re excited and you’re in a good mood and you just want to open it and nobody else is awake in the house because you’re the youngest. And they want to sleep in because they’re teenagers. And I just remember almost going into pure panic mode because I could not open up my present. And I literally went around the house and got a pot, the old school pot and spoon, turn on all the lights and just started banging it to wake everybody up and caused some problems for [inaudible 00:12:52] that Christmas morning. But it was, I had to vent.
I had to get people up. I had to have a way for release. Now, was it a productive behavior? No. Or maybe productive that I got everybody up but it wasn’t the right way to kind of do that. So it’s that positive, your body doesn’t really judge positive or negative, that’s your brain’s job. And so sometimes it’s really hard when your brain can’t really comprehend what’s going on. Oh, that bubble is going to kind of burst. So anyhow, I did get my present later on, but after all the emotions and anger come out from everybody else, wasn’t quite as cool.
Adam:
I really enjoy listening to you guys tell these stories because the first thing I recognized is that you talked a bit about self-awareness right away in the beginning. Knowing that your logic and your emotion are both stressed. And I loved hearing that. And I’m hearing you tell stories about your son Sarah and telling your Christmas story Mike. It makes me apply that to my girls a lot. And I have some questions around that and we can get to those if you’d like. When it comes to the self-awareness and thinking about the kids in our home, what are you doing to model as good of behavior as possible when your stress and your logic are not in balance? And I know we talked a little bit about breathing and getting it back there, but how else are you modeling situations that maybe have nothing to do with them, but they’re in the room maybe and they see you reacting a certain way? Does that come into your mind when you’re trying to lead by example?
Sarah:
I can jump in. The self-awareness is really key. And then for me now, my son’s in his teens now. What I have been finding myself doing lately, being under a lot of stress and change of late is I’m actually processing out loud and saying things, wow, I feel myself feeling really stressed right now and I’m feeling tension in my chest because of that. I wonder what that’s about. Oh, I had this stressful conversation at work and our routine is kind of bearing down on us right now. I wonder what I need to do. I literally do my out loud processing. So then he can start to hear how I’m trying to use my logic to process through my emotion.
Adam:
I love that so much. I don’t mean to jump in and interrupt, but I just need to compliment how much I love that. Because I think with my four year old, she’s smart enough to know, and she can talk through problems. And so I think that would only help if I did that when I have a problem and she would start to see me modeling it. So what a great example, that’s absolutely astounding.
Sarah:
Mike’s head is nodding up and down. So he’s going to have some amazing, brilliant insight to add to this.
Mike:
Now the pressure is up for the brilliant… I agree a hundred percent. Rosalind Wiseman, she’s the one who wrote the original book about Mean Girls, you see in the movie, there’s all this and the idea behind it was really about bullying and how girls can kind of be tough on each other. She has a quote that she says, “you’re, a hundred percent of the time and 100% of the time you’re a role model.” So you think about kids, you just, yeah, I need to be this positive, amazing role model all the time. And so what I love about what both of you, Sarah and Adam have described is when you talk about what you’re doing or what you’re trying, or what you’re going through, kids are seeing that. And the behaviors they pick up are the ones that are role modeled more so than the ones that you’re told.
So that’s a really, really positive piece for your son to see, Oh, you know what? I feel a little tight, my chest area, my neck is just tense. I had a tough phone call today and I’m wondering if that’s playing a role of that. No, maybe I need to go for a walk or maybe I need to, [inaudible 00:17:21] you don’t say do mindfulness because it gives you that, whatever. You’re starting to model what those pieces are. And that is so important. It’s also important to do the reverse for when you mess up. When your logic bubbles, when you’re verging, I’m going to totally steal that now, is way up here and you just don’t do the right thing or human. It’s important that you take the time to process that with your kids. It’s , ah, man, I didn’t recognize that I was upset.
I didn’t recognize that I wasn’t logically thinking things through. And all my [inaudible 00:18:01] and you were the recipient of that. This is what I should have done because that’s also a really healthy piece for kids to realize when they blow up and make mistakes. Oftentimes we feel shame rather than work through the problem with the person that we’ve hurt as well too. So, the end of the day, we all have our wives and our spouses and our husbands and our kids, maybe Graham parents and others. We really just want to connect with them. That’s all I want to do. And I know I am, sometimes [inaudible 00:18:38] average of the house picking up the emotional bat and that’s not really ever my intention. My intention is I just want to be a good human being, help them and I want them to be the same.
So I think the more you do that, the more connection occurs as well too. So I just love the way you explained that for your son, because he could probably identify, I’ve had a rough day on zoom so tired of zoom. I just want to go see my friends. I just want to go play basketball with my friends again or whatever it is that they can find other healthy, just great ways to kind of release that, to tap that vent.
Sarah:
I’m really touched by your explanation, because I realize that my partner was able to role model for me some effective behavior a couple of weeks ago. So we’ve been talking about our kids in our household, but we have other people in our households. I have a husband, my partner and I was verging quite frankly. I was verging, I was on the edge of all of my emotion and I logically, probably in my mind, tied it to some issues in our marriage and then lost it. And had to come apart, that’s what I call it, I had to come apart, was very emotional and didn’t use maybe the words that I would’ve wanted to have chosen to use in order for it to be an effective conversation. And I can recognize now that there’s probably a lot of stressors that added to that.
But what happened in the moment was I really said some hurtful things to my spouse. And he modeled, being able to pause and recognize that my partner, the person I love is not okay right now. And I’m just going to let her not be okay and did not respond, other than just physically sat with me. And then the next day came back around and said, we probably need to have some conversation. And I was able to be calm enough then to say, you’re probably right. And walk through that conversation. I will tell you four or five years ago, that is not how that scenario would have gone. I would have lost it and had my come apart. And that would have triggered the same for him. And then you can only imagine how productive that would have been.
And so I’m still thankful that I have a partner that can be like seeing what’s happening for me and be, I’m just going to be here. I’m just going to not react and then follow up and say, we need to talk about this and give me that, almost that permission to admit, I’m sorry that didn’t go well last night, this is what’s going on for me and I want to share it from a perspective that you can understand?
Mike:
So Sarah, I want to ask kind of a thought provoking question with that. Well, first, I want to mention the pause. You talked about the pause, the time he gave you, bring the logic back right out of the emotion rule, which ended up being the next day. [inaudible 00:21:55] know how much time that can be. If we’re kids, for adults, it’s a little different. But then for you to be able to have the conversation with him, kind of go through that. Here’s my question. How much closer did it make your relationship with him? How much better does it make the relationship?
Sarah:
Oh yeah. I mean, I’m going to say 10 times because that’s a normal number, but a hundred times, a thousand times. It is actually, I mean, I say this all the time when we facilitate our class, this class saved our marriage and being able to use the skills this way is why this class saved our marriage and still continues to build the bonds, to create the atmosphere, the environment in our household, where then we can also model it for our son. Absolutely, oh my gosh. Yes.
Mike:
I think that’s the best thing. And we talk about transformational learning a lot. That’s really transformational work. It’s not me telling you what you should do. It’s understanding what it looks like. But most importantly, when you’re doing that, when your husband was doing that for you, you felt it. It felt good. And then when you guys were able to kind of come and have the conversation, go through the process, the relationship gets stronger. It gets kind of deeper in a way, but then trust and everything else just follows. The number one thing that’s most important to my wife and I is the trust of our girls because their teenagers [inaudible 00:23:28] that can go haywire in our hurry. But for our daughters to come to us and say, Hey, there’s this going on? Or there’s that going on? We want to have that conversation with that trust and for them to be to role model that even if it’s stuff you don’t necessarily want to hear, or you’re prepared to hear as an adult is really kind of cool for them to say, Hey, here’s where I messed up, this is what I should have done. This is what I was thinking, because really that’s what we want.
I just want them to be able to go out in the world and to be able to do some conflict resolution or realize that they’re going to have good days and they’re going to have bad days and so are other people that doesn’t make it bad. So, I mean, that’s kind of a big, big part of this. I just love how your husband really gave you that space. Then the next day you guys were able to come together and kind of go through that process. A really cool story.
Sarah:
Thanks. That was, I mean, as I say years, you have to be intentional about it. It’s always my message of hope it’s work, it’s work. And you have to choose it so that you can reap those rewards and that closeness and that benefit and those relationship with your kids. And so you have that trust and what it is, it’s a choice. And I think at first starts with me. Adam, we’ve been talking a ton and you keep on nodding and you open your mouth every once in a while. You think [inaudible 00:24:59] but getting a word in edgewise with me and Mike can be a little difficult. So jump in. [crosstalk 00:25:06]
Adam:
I want to acknowledge and say, thanks for sharing that story, because what you shared there is vulnerable. It’s in the idea that you know you were the one that potentially, as you had your come apart, as you called it. And so it’s vulnerable for you to be able to share that story. And I love that you’re willing to do that because it shows that even though we know these skills and we know what’s going on, we’re human. We’re going to have blow ups. We’re going to have potential mistakes. We’re going to have some regret. The could’ve’s, should’ve’s and can’t’s, they still exist in our world, even though we know these things.
So I want to acknowledge and say thanks for sharing that, because I think it can go a long way. And your husband might’ve picked up some of his ability to breathe and pause because of what you’ve been modeling around him. Or maybe he’s just starting to become more self-aware and learning that for himself, instead of triggering back, he needs to take a breath, pause and say, I will come back and we’ll talk about this tomorrow. So again, thanks for sharing the story. I think it goes a long way to get people to connect with what they have been through and what they’re going through.
Sarah:
Thank you, Adam. I appreciate that acknowledgement. It’s really intriguing because both of you understand my mind. In that moment, I was literally being Sarah, you know better [inaudible 00:26:40] happening right now. And I didn’t have the capacity. I just didn’t have the capacity. And I am, I’m grateful and thank you for the perspectives. And it is a learning process. I think that’s kind of what we’re talking about right now. It’s just this ongoing learning process of, Hey, not like now, how am I going to handle this next time when I start to feel this feeling, this verging starting to build up? And I think that’s what we’re trying to model and teach to our kids is basically how to walk out being human.
Adam:
Mike, I really liked your question too, by the way, of what was the benefit in the end and did it make you feel closer? Even though you went through the blow up or the come apart, in the end, what was the benefit of it, was it worth a end? And it is, it’s almost always going to be when you get to take the time and reflect back and say, yes, we are now closer. Our trust is deeper. Our love is deeper. And so I think that… When you asked that question, I really wondered what you were going to say. And I’m, Oh wow, that’s pretty thought provoking. It is pretty good. And very smart to kind of say in the end. It is worth it. It takes time. And that’s what you’re reiterating Sarah is coming back around to keep working at it. It’s a choice to get better.
Mike:
You think it’s kind of, we don’t want it to be about compliance. So compliance is important don’t get me wrong. I need to follow the rules to how I drive my car. I get it. But we don’t really want to ask our relationship so much compliance type things. So if you’re [inaudible 00:28:23] at the moment said, Sarah, you’re not thinking logically you’re out of your mind, do you need to breathe? It would’ve just made the situation a whole lot worse. In other words, if you would have led with compliance rather than empathy [inaudible 00:28:38] helped the situation. But when he actually allowed time for you to come back, it wasn’t no longer about compliance. It was about human emotion and need and that’s much deeper. And when you can understand where the other person’s coming from, oftentimes, we don’t really find that we have these conflicts with other people or having an emotional conflict with ourselves.
And when we can kind of understand that a little bit, it’s just, Oh, and then you can get the support to kind of help each other through that. So I think right now, all this time of change is really bringing that to life more so than ever because we’re around our family members more than we’ve ever been, good and bad. Sometimes it’s bad to be around people that much. You do [inaudible 00:29:34] face in trying to find out how big your house actually is.
So I’m kind of quite enjoyed being in the backyard a lot more than I’ve ever been in there in times of change. But it’s just… It’s really kind of interesting too, when you think about different things we can role model for people when we see them verging or their bubbles get big. The last thing you probably ever want to say, here’s some good marital advice for you Adam, when you see your wife getting upset over something. Don’t tell her to breath. It’s bad. You see a little kid getting upset don’t tell him to breathe.
Adam:
I probably say that too much.
Mike:
You’re forcing them into trying to make a choice when they can’t think logically. When they’re too high with emotion and when you can’t make a simple decision, think of how much more upset even that is, but you can model breathing.
If Sarah’s getting upset, I could just… When I’m sitting with her just start breathing.
Adam:
It’s a really good, really good-
Mike:
And not over-exaggerating. But if we can just get someone to catch a breath, we’re starting to help them bring down that logic a little bit to a more proper [inaudible 00:31:00] to or even just… I know we’re not on video but just relaxing your shoulders, relaxing your body posture. You’re kind of lean slowly down in are all really important things that you’ll be amazed. They’ll just kind of follow suit and they really know they’re falling. And that’s a part of that model as well.
Adam:
Thank you both for being a part of today’s podcast. It’s always great listening to people who have great stories and wonderful examples of how to model for our children. And again, I’m just feeling I’m growing as a parent. Every time I get the opportunity to talk to a couple outstanding individuals. Can you give me a couple key takeaways for our listeners today? Mike why don’t you go first.
Mike:
I think one of the biggest key takeaways for me is to always try to model how to kind of properly release the vent and try not to tell people how to do that. So in other words, show them breathing rather than telling them how to breath.
Sarah:
And I would actually just piggyback right on top of that. When you asked for key takeaways, it was actually really, really affirming to me to hear Mike acknowledge for me that I’ve been modeling and that, that modeling improves those relationships as it did with my husband. And then we can that for our son. So I totally support those key takeaways too Mike. And again, very affirming for me, Oh, okay, I do know what I’m doing. I can do this.
Mike:
I am a good parent.
Adam:
Sarah, I know you wanted to bring up a webinar that Mike is doing soon. Why don’t you tell us about that?
Sarah:
It’s really interesting that our conversation has really tied a bow around this concept of modeling, because you have developed a webinar for our participants around, I keep on saying how to be a good role model when you suck. I know that’s not the title of it, but that’s what keeps on coming out of my mouth. When I talk about it.
Mike:
I kind of think maybe that we need to change the title because I like [crosstalk 00:33:30] The title is very close, it’s how to be an awesome role model even when you mess up. And the idea is, is we’re humans, and David Vandemore talks about being chronically human. And that means we’re amazing and we do great, wonderful things, we’re very creative and we’re prone to error. So what happens when we’re prone to error? What happens when our emotion starts verging and that bubble starts getting big? And really I mess up and I mess up big and I take maybe the emotional bat to somebody. What do we do to fix those steps? Marsha Burns and I, the director of content quality of curriculum just started floating around with these ideas and decided to build a training piece, to help people understand that, you know what, number one, we’re human, we’re going to mess up. It’s okay when we do, but what’s really okay. What we need to do is go back and figure out a way to fix it. And so we’ve kind of built a training designed around that. I’m really excited about it. It’ll be coming up on May 19th. And of course we’ll have this training in a lot of different avenues in the future, but we’ll have it on May 19th at 10:30 central time.
Sarah:
I am super excited for it, Mike, and I’ve had the opportunity to take a sneak peek at it. And I think one of the things I’m really looking forward to is that understanding we’ve been talking about today. But then some really concrete tools and skills and steps to then go in and say, now that I’m aware that this has happened, how do I go back in and manage a situation where maybe I didn’t do as well as I would’ve wanted to. So thank you both for your expertise and your knowledge and bringing that because I think that’s the biggest question for everyone. I know when I’ve screwed up, I know when I suck, I’m fully aware of that. And it’s only then I have then some tools and some skills to go back in and say, I want to do this differently and here’s how I want to do it. So really looking forward to it-
Mike:
That was the… When you told the story of your husband, I was so excited about that because he pretty much did what we talk about. But what was really cool is it’s really about relationship. And when you go through this process, you go through this with people, you’ll find your relationship just gets so much stronger rather than leaving that the conflict level and it [inaudible 00:36:03] separated. That’s not what we want. We want human connection. Human connection is sometimes messy and it’s ugly. We don’t want to be hurt people, hurting people. We want to be able to fix that what we do hurt people.
Sarah:
Absolutely. So looking forward to it. And I’m sure our listeners are looking forward to it as well. So our listeners can go out and check out our Facebook page, check out our website. You can email us at communications@ourcommunitylistens.org. And get on our newsletter list if you’re not already on our newsletter list. We have all kinds of offerings coming out and more as we’re growing and developing. So connected with us in every way you know possible and we are happy to share with you what’s coming on our agenda for you. Well, thank you, Mike. Thank you, Adam-
Adam:
You welcome.
Sarah:
… conversation.
Mike:
Thank you both. It was a lot of fun and it’s always enlightening and it always feels good to know that you’re not the only person who messes up in the world. Always great. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing [inaudible 00:37:08] stories Sarah. It felt good. [crosstalk 00:37:13]
Sarah:
I might’ve sucked as a spouse, but I was a good parent.
Adam:
If you have any suggestions about subjects for our podcast, feel free to reach out through our Facebook page. And if you’re interested in taking a class, visit ourcommunitylistens.org. Thank you again for listening to our podcast and don’t forget, each word, each action, each silent moment of listening sends the message. Therefore, you are the message.